MUNDIARIO interviews the brain behind the innovative algorithmic measurement eDNA®, that in 3 minutes can decipher the behavior of a person replicating by synaptic model.
It is 1:00 pm on a cold day of December. Adolfo Domínguez Building in the Serrano 5 street of Madrid. Lift. Fourth floor. Leather sofa. I introduce myself. Nod with his head. I sit down. He smiles. We can say that Elías Azulay is a restless person. A kind of old-fashioned thinker who everyday wish to learn something new to incorporate to what he already knows, and, thus, follow that constant search for knowledge that entertains him so much.
Who is Elías Azulay?
This graduate in Business Administration and Management, MBA and Systems Auditor, served as General Tutor at the Biocampus Genoma Spain, helping hundreds of elite scientists to develop their start-ups. He is an ambassador of the Innovation Chair of the Polytechnical University of Valencia and founder of his own company: Jacobson, Steinberg & Goldman. A firm that, among other things, has developed the innovative algorithmic technology eDNA® that is giving so much to talk about.
I perceive that mentioning all this makes Elías quite uncomfortable… so I start the conversation with absolute naturalness.
The questions
– Professor Azulay, how has been your relationship with the world of science?
A cordial relationship and not without freedom. I could say that I have striven to observe, think, learn and understand many disciplines and none has been turned against me. So, my relationship with science has been good… I would say privileged. I met her more than 15 years ago, and we are still together…
– I imagine that you as a child would be a “nerd”… Was really like this?
It went completely unnoticed, but I sensed that my brain worked somewhat differently. He was one of those young people who were passing the courses without great efforts and without hardly delving into the subjects. I liked almost everything and almost nothing I spent much time, except in the case of music. I didn’t know what I wanted to study, nor was I clear about what I would be when I grew up. Maybe I’d been diagnosed with ADHD today… who knows.
– You are known for making great strides in measuring emotions and, in particular, for discovering the eDNA® algorithm. What is the significance of this discovery?
This is the first time the synaptic model has been replicated. This means that we can know what a person is like and how he will react to a multitude of incentives. Simply, we have found a translator who turns emotions into numbers.
– But have you studied psychology or neurology? Can you explain it to me…
You are probably asking me about degrees and accreditations, while perhaps it is about acquiring knowledge and how to relate to it. I have studied and been interested in these disciplines. In addition, genetics and molecular biology are passionate about me, and it is fortunate that they crossed my path. What happens is that I don’t study; I learn, and for you to learn a discipline, it must be understood, and we understand her. It is a job that belongs to both parts.
In addition, in my research I always surround myself with excellent professionals from different areas, such as genetics, biology, or psychology. You can’t know everything, and that’s why I love to relate theories and experiences to which great scientists have dedicated their entire lives. You know? Have you read Eric Kandel? Great… he is very great.
– Professor…. How can emotions be measured?
Very easy. We know that everything we perceive, feel, learn and memorize is due to neurotransmitter activity, but it is clear that we cannot open a person’s head to see how he thinks and how much he releases at the neurotransmitter level. New technologies such as neuroimaging do not help us much in this field and of course the hormonal concentration in blood, either.
It is about replicating the synaptic functioning through a mathematical model… like music, like genetics…
– Could you give me an example about this state of emotional measurement with music?
Of course. Look, a chord is made up of different notes. For example, a DO major is composed of a dominant DO, a SOL, and an MI.
If you increment one more note in that chord, for example, an SI, we get a 7th greater C. A cord much wider, sweeter and more open than the original DO major. A chord that points towards new combinations and new routes. If we also propose different “tempos” for each of the notes, we obtain billions of different combinations. Don’t forget that Beethoven’s 9th Symphony or Georgie Dann’s The Barbecue have the same 7-note root. There is no more.
The emotions, as synaptic transactions that they are, behave the same. We all have the same neurotransmitters, but we order and combine them differently.
– All this is very fascinating, however… Is it true that with a single measurement of just 3 minutes, you can know everything about the behavior of a person?
Almost everything… (laughs). Yes. It’s like that. The synaptic model is unique in each individual. It’s like a fingerprint. In this model, gene expression, precursor amino acids and metabolic processes are involved in solidarity. All these elements and their way of acting are individualized indicators. With the eDNA® algorithmic measurement, you have access to the “emotional axis” through a unique and non-transferable code. This individual axis is composed of more than 11 million possible oscillations, offering what is usually called “behavior”.
What happens is that I study; I learn, and in order for one to learn a discipline, it must be understood, and we understand her.
– You are scaring me a little. So, is it possible to know how a person will react to a particular event?
Of course. Look, Rafael Yuste, the director of the global Brain project and one of the most illustrious and modest scientists existing today, said not so long ago that. In this case, he refers to the molecular bases of the brain and the rest of the CNS (Central Nervous System). He enlightens us on what he calls “neural shots”.
Our algorithmic technology anticipates these results by working with highly predictive “In Sílico” models with great computational sophistication, giving much less weight to calculations based on modal statistics. In this way, in 2018 we were able to set the early warning of Alzheimer disease.
Currently, with this technology we can mark the probability of suffering from this and other neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinson disease. The same with more than 20 disorders or disorders in behavior.
– So, it seems that we are in a new emotional scenario driven by advances in computing and genetics. But what about CRISPR editing on these behavioral issues?
With these issues, we must be as rigorous as cautious, and thus avoid sensationalism. Although we know that psychoses have a structurally genetic foundation, it is clear that with this modification through these or other molecular scissors not only will act on pathologies of physiological characteristics, but also on mental illnesses, although at present that is not the main objective of its use.
Please consider that we do not know exactly the progressive and combined action of the different gene expressions, which branch out into highly combinable vectors. There are too many diseases about which we do not know their origins. Let’s say that, perhaps, and although it seems barbaric, we could cure schizophrenia, generating in turn a predisposition to suffer from skin cancer, due to an innocent shortage and subsequent relocation of the amino acid tyrosine in different proteins.
With eDNA® algorithmic technology, we can measure the effects of such a modification, but we will never be in a position to cause those variations. It’s not their role. Anyway, the one who knew the most about this was Sydney Brenner.
– Not long ago, I read that it seemed to confirm what you have already published about the relationship between autistic syndrome and excess release of the neurotransmitter GABA. Is this true?
Well… by studying and interpreting the behavior of a person with autism or suffering from any other series of symptomatic dysfunctions, we can define what we call a “contrast persotype” or “robot portrait”. Keep in mind that the neurotransmitter GABA is very original.
Its excessive release poses an erroneous gene expression that affects, and not reactively as could occur in other neurotransmitters, many metabolic pathways.
In short, a surplus of GABA does not allow a normalized release of glutamate, and this absence of release blocks access to new chains and synaptic combinations.
Kandel (Nobel Prize in Medicine and Physiology, 2000) identified that a duplication in a segment of the DNA of chromosome 7 had an impact on an isolated and antisocial behavior very similar to that manifested by those affected by autistic syndrome. On the other hand, a deletion, rupture, or absence of that same segment caused an excessive social and relational activity to manifest itself that in symptomatic terms is called Williams Syndrome.
The serious question would be… What information does that small segment possess that its variation causes two people to behave in a diametrically opposite way, and even possess very specific physical features? In theory, in the future, we could be eternal, but I doubt that path is the best option.
– I would like to know your opinion on whether we are close to defeating death.
In genetic terms, we are already eternal; even so, gene transmission lacks consciousness. In theory, in the future, we could be eternal, but I doubt that path is the best option. Our brain, being healthy, would not evolve much further. Oddly enough, part of cellular evolution occurs due to errors in transcription.
– What is the legacy that eDNA® will leave to the world?
I believe that the legacy it will leave is more a model of thought than a concrete scientific formula. No researcher finishes the research he initiates… so the problem will be for those who come.
For now, the algorithm is on a pendrive, heavily guarded. You know… like 007 style… (laughs). The trademark is registered, and the entire conceptual model is protected by intellectual property.
Collaboration is born from different ideas, but unfortunately also from these differences usually appear arguments and jealousy. The best, it’s to go ahead or behind, but never at the same time. That generates a lot of anxiety. The scientific world is so extremely competitive that I only ask those who want to copy or plagiarize something, to do their best.
Interview taken from @mundiario
